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 The Hobbit stageshow

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Dînadan
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PostSubject: The Hobbit stageshow   Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:37 am


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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:09 pm

that looks good. Pity i will never get to see it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Sat Feb 13, 2010 7:39 pm

Why not? It's only the last night for Cardiff - it is going elsewhere in the country. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:10 am

oh ok. didn't know that. Might have alook at the BIC's scedual then.
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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Sun Feb 14, 2010 9:25 am

Well, I must say it was an interesting experience. Smaug was very good (although it was a bit funny when one of the horns snagged on a piece of scenery), and they made very good use of limited set peices (just two 'rocks' which covered everything thing from Bag End, to the Misty Mountains to Mirkwood to the Lonely Mountain). On the downside the Dwarves were beardless O.o (or relatively at least - some of them did have stubble), they had some odd pronouciations of some names and aparently Elrond can fly O.o Oh, and aparently Thranduil is Darth Vader's understudy (at one point it looks like he force chokes Bilbo and the Dwarves Surprised )

There were a few changes to the story, although not to bad. An example of a reasonable change was the cutting of Thorins companions down from 12 to 4, and not showing the eagles (just implying their presence via cutting the lightings accompanied by an eagle screetch and then raising the lighting to imply the passing of time). Something that seemed odd was giving the Master of Laketown a French accent and giving Bofur a camp Welsh accent O.o



On the note of the pronouciations, how do people think the following should be pronounced:
Balin
Fili
Kili
Smaug
Dale

According to the actors they're pronouced:
Bay-lin
Fee-Lee
Key-Lee
Smow-g/Smar-g
Darren

Personally I think its:
Bah-Lin
Fill-E
Kill-E
Smor-g
Day-l

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:56 am

Sounds reasonable. Have you seen the LOTR stageshow? If so, how does it compare to that?

And....Darren? Seriously? The others I can understand...but who can pronounce 'Dale' as 'Darren'?

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:02 am

Yep, saw the LotR stageshow (coincidentally, also on the afternoon performance of the closing night). LotR was better, but it was a bigger production on a bigger stage, so you can't really compare them :/

As for Darren...I'm only 95% sure that's what they said. They mumbled it a bit and 'Darren' is how it sounded to me :/

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:55 am

Maybe they were trying to put a fantasy t'wist' on it...I hate it when people do that...trying to make words sound more epic than they need to....

Never saw LOTR myself - although a few friends did. They all liked it as a performance but the ones who had read the books were a bit put out by it which put me off.

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:27 pm

Well putting a fantasy twist on it would explain Beorn's woodsmen. When they visited Beorn, and gained his trust he called in his woodsmen, and they came in and did a sort of jig (with the Dwarves and Bilbo joining in of course). Each woodsman appeared to be dressed as a different animal (two had goat/ram horns on and one had something on his back which I guess were supposed to look like hedgehog spine, and there were a couple of others whose 'species' I couldn't adentify) - although it has spark a question in my head:
Beorn was 'skinchanger', but was he the only one, and if not, did they all turn into bears, or were there other were[insert animal here] in Middle-earth (werewolves probably don't count - from my reading of the Silmarillion I've always assumed that they were just giant wolves, i.e. unto wargs what wargs are unto normal wolves)?

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:24 am

I always thought wereworlves were akin to vampires and balrogs in being spiritual beings (possibly maiar) which took animalistic physical forms.

As for Beorn - i can't remember but I wsa under tyhe impression that he and his father we're the only ones specifically named as being able to change form (into a bear). I believe there were a group of men called 'Beornings' which he led, along with the Woodsmen, against Sauron's forces in the vaeles of the Anduin - however I don't think any of them are attributed with the same special powers as Beorn... It's certainly possible that there were others like Beorn though and that they might change into an animal other than Bears.

Having said that, I'm not sure but I don't think Tolkien ever refers to Beorn as 'one of many' i.e. "a shapeshifter" or "a skinchanger"; as though the concept existed in the minds of the characters. As I recall he is always just "Beorn", indicating that it is a unique skill - but that's just speculation really.

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:36 am

I think you mean Beorn's son, not his father (I don't recall his father ever being mentioned). And checking the book again, he is called a skinchanger:

TH, Chap7 wrote:

"If you must know more, his name is Beorn. He is very strong, and he is a skin-changer."

The question is, what is meant by a skin-changer. Is it meant like 'a Gondorian' would refer to anyone from Gondor, or is it meant in the sense that Shaddowfax was 'a Meras' (i.e. one of a special lineage)?


As for werewolves, I doubt they were maiar (although some might have been) - as I recall, Carcharoth was a werewolf cub taken by Morgoth and raised to be the most powerful wolf in Arda (to fufill the prophecy about Huan). I can't recall any other mention of maiar breeding together, although in older drafts of the Silmarillion, the maiar and valar did have children (if I recall correctly, Gothmog was originally Morgoth's son), and in the Silmarillion as it stands, we do have Luthien as proof that a maia can breed with a mortal, so maybe werewolves are the result of maiar breeding with wargs to create a 'super-race' without having to put Morgoth's most powerful servants on the front lines.

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Sat Feb 20, 2010 11:21 am

Well, that just proved pretty much all of my understanding to be utterly flawed...and that I need to re-read the hobbit Razz

Yes I meant his son, Grimbeorn who was also a skin-changer and I believe was present at the fall of Dol Guldor or for at least some of the Elvish campaign in Mirkwood at the end of TA. In any case my point was that the skill was one that was inhereted - perhaps suggesting that Beorn in turn inherited it from his ancestors. I think I read somewhere that Beorn could trace ancestory back to the Edain, some of whom learnt the art of shape-shifting from the Elves, among them Beren, who shares many parallels with Beorn - although I cannot verify this.

Personally I lean toward the "one of a special lineage" explanation and like to think that Beorn was one of very, very few. Only he and his line specifically had the knowledge to change shape, other Woodsmen would not. Having said that - there is clear evidence that there were other mortals who had learned that art of skin-changing - and if there were it is likely that each could have chosen their own 'alternative form'.

As for werewolves, I wasn't under the impression that Carharoth was actually a werewolf, simply a very large and evil wolf, albeit sleected and raised by Melkor. For me a werewolf is defined as such as being a spiritual being (not necessarily maiar) which takes on the physical attributes of a wolf. I can't remember but aren't the werewolves of Tol-in-Gaurhoth described as loosing their physical forms when the tower was surrendered?

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PostSubject: Re: The Hobbit stageshow   Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:34 am

On Grimbeorn: Don't recall reading anything about what he got up to in the WotR - as I recall, the only mention is by Gloin who says he and his followers are toll keepers on the road over the Misty Mountains.

On Beorn's race: In TH, Gandalf says he believes that Beorn came from the Misty Mountains because once he saw him sitting on the Carrock, looking westwards and muttering about going back some day. Thinking about this, could Beorn perhaps have some connection to Tom Bombadil?

On werewolves: it's been a while since I've read the Silmarillion, but I'm fairly sure it's stated Carcharoth was taken as a pup from Tol-in-Gaurhoth to be his persnal guard dog and to kill Huan.

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