So, part 1 has been aired. What did everyone think?




Personally, I am thouroughly disapointed so far, and I'm half dreading part 2

One point of contention for me was the cult of the Master that's appeared as if from no-where. I was honestly expecting the hand that picked up the Master's ring in the season 3 finale to belong to his wife, not some random cultist. The cult could have worked if they'd built up hints to it over a couple of seasons instead of just throwing it into the limelight randomly.

That leads me onto the next 'WTF?' moment. What the hell was up with the Master's ressurection? It just made no sense to me, although hopefully it means that RTD has used up his Deus Ex Machina type event for this episode and we'll have a decent ending (although considering how part 1 ended, I'm not holding my breath ). And further, how has the Master developed super powers?

It's nice to see the Time Lords back in it (maybe their re-imergance will stop the doctor wangsting about being all alone), but why have they gone from being the protectors of time to "Let's destroy Time! Bwahaha!" ?


Overall, I think that this episode is proof that RTD has long overstayed his welcome as head writer, and I for one will be glad to see the back of him.

The Time Lords aren't trying to destroy time... it stated how they were here to save the universe from the end of time...

Although where the f**k did they come from? They need to explain how they're there surely. You say how the masters ressurection made no sense but this to you does? Am I missing something?

Oh and I'm fairly sure the Masters superpowers will be explained, I'm pretty sure it's to do with his wires potion in some way or another.

The Time Lords reapearing does make some sort of sense with what they've set up with the Universe. Firstly, the Time Lords were 'locked away' with the Daleks and the Time War in some sort of Temperal Lock (this doesn't really make any sense anyway but that's a debate for another day). With all the c**p that's been happening in the Whoniverse - The walls between parallel universes colapsing, Dalek-Caan breaking the Time Lock to rescue Davros, etc, it's plausable that that Lock has been weakened enough for the Time Lords to break through. Note, however, that I never said them reapearing made sense - just that it was nice to see them back

I must have misheard, because from the way Timothy Dalton was talking, it sounded like they wanted to destroy Time :? Will have to rewatch on the iPlayer

I missed some of it yesterday so watched it again on iplayer - some of it didn't really seem to make sense but I thought it was ok...will wait till the second half before passing my fuill judgement.

I agree that the cult was a bit uneccissary although I'm not sure if other routes would have made much more sense though - same with the ressurrection. I was more confused by the "I am so hungry" thing. At first it was fine...but after he sets to work on the gate it seems to be forgotten...suddenly he's no longer in an edless search for food, he's just going to turn every human being into...himself.... Why wouldn't he use the gate to 'harvest' the planet to satisfy his hunger or something?

I think the Master's superpowers were attributed to him "burning up his own lifeforce" or something similar...as though he was unnaturally tapping into his Time Lord energy to perform such feats but in doing so he is burning himself up... That's how I took it anyways.

Return of the Time Lords - well we'll have to wait for the next episode to see whether that works or not...

ArtificialWinter wrote:

I agree that the cult was a bit uneccissary although I'm not sure if other routes would have made much more sense though - same with the ressurrection.

True, but if they'd made it his wife who'd picked up the Ring, and made her part of the cult it could have at least been justified as it being his back up plan (i.e. her shooting him was part of a grander scheme) - as it stands, it comes off as a plan that comes out of nowhere. A way that could have worked, without having John Simms come back would be to make the Ring similar to the Watches the Doctor and Master used with their cameleon arches (or whatever they were called) and have his 'spirit' possess someone (and he's already done somthing similar in the old series and in the TV movie, so it wouldn't seem so out of place).

Another thing that needs to be explained is why has he become blonde? Maybe it has something to do with his wife's plan to stop him (maybe part of her is in him and at the end will be a deciding factor in his defeat?)

Hmm - repeating the 'cameleon arches' (can't remember either) would have made more sense but it was an idea they probably lrejected precisely because they had used it before. had they used it we might be sitting here criticising them for not doing something new.

Hopefully at least some of these loose ends will be tied up in the next episode...hopefully...

I wouldn't be criticsizing them as that is what I thought would happen and to me that is something that makes sense (in context) and would work very well.

Another thing I would have liked to see, is that instead of the alien medical gizmo thing turning all humans (bar Wilf and Donna) into the Master, it should have turned them into Time Lords, albiet perhaps mentally unstable ones with personalities similar to that of the Master.


And speaking of the transformation - anyone else notice that it was inconsistant? When the guy backing the project and his daughter were changed, they kept their original hieghts, but one of the people in Obama's audience has clearly shrunk down when he changed (when he's clapping after the change, his suit is clearly too big hinting that he's shrunk down to the Matster's size).


Hopefully, lots of loose ends will be tied up in part 2, although I won't be suprised if they aren't :/

Dînadan wrote:

And further, how has the Master developed super powers?

He was epending his life force rapitly so this meant that he could harnees the life force the was poring out of him.

However it was stupid. The cult sprang form nowhere, the Master tho still awsume was laughable at times with his "Abilitys" and the sending was a "Shock moemnt for all of 2 seconds until you relise that it's a stupid idea. doesn't the Doctor say he can tell if there are any left alive in his head hence why he can tell where the master is?

Just rewatched the ending on the iPlayer, and made a transcript of the Time Lord's speach:

Quote :

And so it came to pass on Christmas Day that the human race ceased to exist. But even then the Master had no concept of his greater role in events, for this was far more than humanity’s end. This day was the day upon which the whole of Creation would change forever. This was the day the Time Lords returned.

For Galifrey.

For Victory.

For the End of Time Itself!

Could just be me, but it sounds a hell of alot like they want to destroy Time. Of course it could just be Timothy Dalton snarling and spitting every other word that gives this impression Will have to watch the Confidential episode to see if they clear it up there.

Firstly, technically the human race has still survived as there are at least two humans (although arguably Dona could be considered 'extra-human') that we know are still alive.

Secondly, I agree that the Time Lord speech does seem to indicate that one of their goals is to "the end of time itself". It sounds to me like they're playing the 'make blunt, dramatic statements that turn out to be true in a sense but do not actually result in the destuction of the word/ death of key character/ end of time itself'. Personally, I think this something they've used too many times before and could have been done without here.

it does make me wonder about people like Kack, Micky Sarah-jane etc who have all been travellers and would they transform.......and if jack tranforms dow that men that Master can never die.......sort of

Well, I don't know about Micky and Sara Jane, but I'd think they'd change aswell (Donna is presumable only 'safe' because of becoming the Doctor-Donna, and Wilf was only safe because he was in that booth). Jack is most likely safe as he's almost cirtainly not on Earth anymore - at the end of Torchwood season 3 he hitched a ride with a passing spaceship to go wander the stars for a bit. The ending probably would have had more dramatic impact if they'd shown characters from Torchwood and SJA transforming rather than lots of shots of random people in London and the Obama 'cameo'.

I just got a mental immage of K9 tranforming. I knew it would happen but it's funny.
Never saw Touchwood after season 1.....execpt 2 episodes after whats his mane "dided" and was walkign around compaining about it.

Well K9 is safe - it only effected humans remember Acording to wikipedia, Sarah Jane, her son, Capt. Jack, Rose and her mum will be in part 2.

why Rose and Jakie? They are in another dimetion. I wish they would stop bringing back all the old caratures....tho i don't mind jack. Great charautre and actor and person.

Dunno why they're bringing them back - hopefully they'll actually only feature in flash backs rather than be full roles >

i do hope so. Other wise it may get confusing haveing 2 doctors again and then 1 regenerating

Surely if Donna has remembered everything, her brain will explode and that's one fairly-pointless-and-quite-annoying plot twist to be rid of

Don't get me wrong, she was a better companion than Rose but the whole "Doctor Donna" thing has gone too far... which is unexpected in itself, I would never have thought that a sci-fi show could go "too far" (although that's a topic for another day...)

To be honest, it's mainly down to RTD being a hack. He can write some decent episodes, but always sticks in one thing that ruins it and makes it a bad episode overall :/

What did everyone think of the second part. I thought it was quite good but my god it draged on after the Dr got the radiaton......wait didn't he regenarate after about 5 mins top the first time but this time he drops of whats his name, Visits all his previous compaians(And future), meets donna's dad and then visitis rose before she meet him and then he dies......
Alos how did the Tardis explode. It was fine last time.

You forgot that he also had time to by a lottery ticket

Personally, I thought it was rubbish and I'm glad RTD is gone; hopefully with Stephen Moffat as head writer we'll get lots of good episodes

I'm afraid to say this, what with all the giant squids of anger in this thread, but I liked it!

More importantly, what does everyone think of Matt Smith? (The new Doctor, for everyone else in the world who hasn't heard of him )

I think that it's too early to tell what he's like. Didn't like him from the samall bit we saw of him, but to be fair it was nowhere near long enough to give him a fair work out.

To be honest the episode wasn't a bad Doctor Who episode per say - it was just a bad 'Oh-My-God-The-Universe-Is-Doomed-And-Even-The-Doctor-Is-Going-To-Have-A-Hard-Time-Saving-The-Day-And-So-Many-BIG-Things-Are-Going-On-So-Many-In-Fact-Your-Head-Should-Expload-From-It-etc-etc-etc.' I think that it'd been built up too much for it to be given a fair judgement, and all the forshadowing that went into the last couple of episodes just fizzled out and didn't live up to the Fire and Brimstone that RTD tried to make it out to be. One of the biggest problems for me was how long it dragged out his regeneration and how said regeneration somehow nearly demolished the TARDIS Maybe they're going to have a new set for the next series for the TARDIS and that was the best way that RTD could think of to bring in the change (instead of say going down a more sensible route like saying the inside has it's own chameolian circuit and the Doctor just decided to do the equivelent of changing his computer's desktop To be honest, it's a pity DT decided to leave, as to me, it seems that Wilf should have sacrificed himself - he just seems like the sort of person who would do that, and the Doctor did say that touching any of the controls would vent the radiation into the chamber. :/

are it wasn't good but wasn't good eaither. the Dr take a leaf out of many Animes and turns Emo and they really draged out he regenration. Tho i glad they didn't kill Wilf as i really liked him. I just hope they will leave all the minor cast out of it now like Rose tho i would like to see more Mikey and maybe more Jack, but only becuase i loove the charatures and the actors.

Personally, I quite enjoyed the episode and thought it was better than the ones leading up to it by far. I agree that they tried to do too much with it - to many BIG things were going on to squeeze into one episode but they'd written it in such a way that without all the big things going on, the first one wouldn't have made sense...an odd way to do things if you ask me.

Although I thought it odd that the Doctor managed to hold off regeneration for far longer than in previous cases, thinking about it, he could have probably done all those things in about 15 minutes at a push, maybe a little more, which makes it a little more feasable for me. I actually thought it was a good way to see off DT as the Doctor and perhaps tie up a few characters that have been lingering around for a while ie. Martha, Mickie, Donna+co

As soon as I saw pieces falling off the Tardis I assumed it meant an interior-redsign - although its a little inconsistent with previous regenerations its probably a good way to explain an brand new layout (considering that a large percentage of the audience are kids who only have the recent series to go on) Like the characters, I think this may have been their way of starting a fresh with the new Doctor

Wasn't a huge fan of MS but like Dinadan I don't think we can really judge from that breif performance. I'm hoping he'll make a good sucssesor but DT's shoes certainly are large... Does anyone know what else he's been in?