hey all,

just wondering what you personally think is the biggest rules flaw in the wotr rulebook.

Yesterday night, me and edonil on OR were discussing the 'epic strike' (fight 10 till the rest of the turn) alongside a heroic or epic duel.

We worked out what the very best outcome on dain's behalf would be if he faced Saruman. So if Dain rolls a 6, saruman rolls a 1. Then with the biggest difference, he could roll 17 times on the heroic duel table. the best he could get would be 17 6s. If he DID do this, he would strike Saruman 51 times (AUTO HITS!!!!) and his formation another 51 times (also auto hits). Thus he could get 102 auto hit attacks against the enemy before the battle had even begun between the formations....

INSANITY!!!!

share them here....

One of the worst flaws for me is the fact that epic heroes have lots of rules that do absolutely nothing as they never pass onto the formation they are with. About the only one that has any effect is terror, and even then it is debatable as to how effective it is.

I agree with some rules, but equally i think lots of them help out the formation, I.e. things like anduril.

I think terror is good tbh, they need to pass a test if they are charged too, unlike in SBG, or fight at F0, which is a nice hadful of dice

I don't mean the rules like Anduriel - I mean the 'generic' special rules which are the same as the ones that formations have. Things like bane, spirit grasp, spirit walk, pathfinder, etc. They're completely pointless when given to heroes as the heroes will never use them :/

On the terror issue, I was refering to something different. At my club the issue was raised when does it come into effect. One person claimed that an epic hero in a formation with terror will not make a unit charging his formation take a test because his 'target is the formation and not the hero'. Eventually a compromise was settled on whereby if the epic hero's company is the first one of his formation charged or charging, then the enemy has to test, but otherwise they don't test.

The most borken is this scenario.

Boromoir and his men are charged by a Mordor Troll. They fail there courge test for terror and have a fight value of 0/- now but Boromoir just goes Epick Strike and now he's fight value 10/-.

As with your "Hero ability" Problem i have made a house ruels for this.
Only the Comapany the hero joins benifit from the heros abilitys(Unless other wise stated). For example 2 comapnys of orcs with a Nazgul do not cause terror. The command company causes terro and unless they are fighting then they do not benifit form any abilitys that Nazgul might have(Men are goignt o be scared more by fighting a Nazgul one on one rather than him sitting at the back doing his nails)

Another probplem i found is if a formation is disorded they can not move,charge or shoot but it says nothing about magic. I made aanother house Rule saying that they can not cast magic as they are too busy keeping there men in cheak.

(No Nazgul even have Nails? )

It is apparant that epic strike is always a problem.

maybe in the next versions of the rule, epic strike will just increase the fight by +3 till the end of the phase, or allow the entire formation to use his f value till the end of the turn.

but what about people like Theoden and Celeborn as they all ready do that.

jaws900 wrote:

but what about people like Theoden and Celeborn as they all ready do that.

yes, but thats a permanant effect, wheras in the form of a epic action, its only temproary until the end of the phase, thus you can use it when you need a few extra attacks in a vital turn!

I have yet to play but I believe that magic is just overboard. You'd expect a magician to get tired sometime soon rather than blasting round after round of 'Strenght by Corruption' while he's safely away from charging distance.

Other than that, I've heard rumors and murmurs of woe concerning Epic Strike.

yep for magic. particlarly the fact that every shaman can cast bolt of fire for free each turn!

thats on average 4-7 casualties inflicted (per shaman lol!) on the formation before the combat has even began!

On the subject of shamans, has anyone else noticed that either they are grossly overpriced, or that all the other magic users are underpriced? For the same point as a shaman you can get the MoS who as an epic hero can move from formation to formation and has epic actions which he can use, plus he knows an extra spell set and has an aditional level. For an extra 25pts you can get a wraith, that has the same advantages as MoS, plus another magic level and a nifty special rule.

personally i disagree with overpriced. Just continuing on the previous post, they really can help out before a fight, or bonuses in the fight!

Corsair wrote:

personally i disagree with overpriced. Just continuing on the previous post, they really can help out before a fight, or bonuses in the fight!

In that case, the Epic heroes who cast magic are underpriced. Like I said, compare the shamans to the epic hero magic wielders and I'm sure you'll agree that the epic heroes are far better when you can afford them. They're only worth taking for sake of theme (and even then that's debatable).

Un anmed shamans are not onder or over priced but i do agree that Epic Hero magic users are underpiced. Krudash the Faire Caller, Drugaz etc are the same costs a normal shaman and they even have a extra 5 odd abilitiys.

I don't know if this is a flaw, but it is damn harsh when used right. I don't consider it too bad since the dark marshal only has 1 might point (thus can only use the ability once, without being boosted by others anyway). But using epic strike means than his entire formation will become Fight 10 for the rest of the phase, thats ALOT of extra attacks in combat, even against high fight goodies like elves.

Corsair wrote:

I don't know if this is a flaw, but it is damn harsh when used right. I don't consider it too bad since the dark marshal only has 1 might point (thus can only use the ability once, without being boosted by others anyway). But using epic strike means than his entire formation will become Fight 10 for the rest of the phase, thats ALOT of extra attacks in combat, even against high fight goodies like elves.

The Wraiths' individual special rules aren't epic actions, they're always in effect, so when the Marshal uses Epic Strike, it can potentially mean that another formation gets a 'free' epic strike that turn O.o

Dînadan wrote:

Corsair wrote:

I don't know if this is a flaw, but it is damn harsh when used right. I don't consider it too bad since the dark marshal only has 1 might point (thus can only use the ability once, without being boosted by others anyway). But using epic strike means than his entire formation will become Fight 10 for the rest of the phase, thats ALOT of extra attacks in combat, even against high fight goodies like elves.

The Wraiths' individual special rules aren't epic actions, they're always in effect, so when the Marshal uses Epic Strike, it can potentially mean that another formation gets a 'free' epic strike that turn O.o

I never said they were....O.o

and you basically just said exactly what i just said - apart from you added that it can be any formation within 12", i only said his own...

Sorry I misread you post - it sounded to me like you were saying their special rules were limited by the number of might points they have, and that you were just using epic strike as an aditional example of their nastyness.

haha. nope, not at all. no probs.

More to the point, Epic Strike is always presenting problems. GW really notched it up too much i think.

i had to epic stike once jsut to stop me from bgeing over welmed in a duel since he epic Stricked. And i came of worse as i actually died and I only had 4 might wheres he had 6 (His Boromir vs my Farmair)

very themed game then Jaws!!!!

ofcource. I was a brothers tiff.
I was also using an entirely mounted gondor force of 500pts and I took Faramir as he was the cheapest Epic hero that i could have who i had the modal for.

I reckon the worst flaw by far is the Councilor special rule. 2 Councilors can boost all heroes within 6" to 10 might by bouncing might back and forth and giving it away... Pretty much impossible to defeat, without 9 or so Ringwaiths